Carl's FFR Mk4 Roadster Build

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by Carlewms, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    For the last two days ... I fiddled with the final placement of the windshield.

    One of the most tiresome tasks in the build, the installation of the windshield is also one of the most frustrating. The bodies are definitely not symmetrical and FFR states in the instructions that the windshield frames vary depending on their vendor source. These factors combine to cause an iterative process of mounting, measuring, removing and adjusting the holes in the body to get the the windshield in place.

    Ideally this is a two person job ... but in this case I had to improvise a little. I used a cargo strap with rubberized hooks to hold the windshield at the desired angle. The ratchet on the strap allowed for minor incremental changes to the angle of the windshield to the body.

    [​IMG]

    On Friday before starting this process, Craig and I watched the Build School video on the process of installing the windshield posts on to the frame around the windshield. The chrome plated brass screws into the brass plate in the windshield frame was the delicate part; too much torque and the brass just strips out. So far so good; but some filing of the screws to get the posts completely secured to the windshield and prevent them from cracking the glass.

    I am also checking with Whitby Motors to get their SS replacements for the brass plates in the windshield. Using their steel plates with SS screws from MC will reduce the chances of striping the screws. The screw part is JIS 18-8 Stainless Steel Phillips Flat Head Screws, M5 x 0.8 mm Thread, 8 mm Long, packs of 10. I called them yesterday and they are sending me the inserts and the screws ...

    There are several constraints or parameters from all those that have done this before me:

    1. Requirements for installation of the FFR Premium soft top ... the distance from the top screw on the frame to the rear of the door needed to be 27" (Note: I have also seen where the final angle between the windshield posts and the cowl should be 53 deg ...

    2. The body should not (meaning shall not) touch the windshield metal ... meaning only the rubber seal should touch the cowl and the windshield posts SHOULD NOT touch the body where they penetrate to the frame; and,

    3. Don't stress the glass by putting pressure on it from the installation of the posts ... use shims and or gently twist the brass posts so that they fit on the frame without imparting any pressure on the frame/glass. The ends of the posts tend to duck feet out as you look forward; not always matching up with the frame.

    Here are the results so far ... PS

    [​IMG]

    Even this is not necessarily the final position since there is a little leeway in the mounting ... the frame has 1/2" openings and the windshield is drilled for 3/8" bolts. Therefore it seemed to me the best thing was to get the hole locations on the posts marked such that there was sufficient room for the holes ... For example here is a poor photo of the problem I initially had on the PS post.

    [​IMG]

    It is a hard to see but the left or bottom hole would only be incomplete going through the back of the windshield post.

    DS

    [​IMG]

    For me the most useful parameters seemed to be the distance from the hood edge to the rubber on the windshield and the distance from the top screw of the post to the rear of the door body side. I am worried that the distance from the first top screw to the back of the door is different by about 1/4".

    As part of the iterative process of fitting the windshield I did goon up the DS holes in the body ...

    [​IMG]

    The inside of the body is almost touching the post so I will need to expand it a little while filling in the outside ... A LOT!

    I have not actually pulled the windshield to drill the holes in the posts yet so if I am doing something way wrong please comment. The goal is to get the windshield finished on Wednesday.
     
  2. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    After about 5 hours of futzing with the variables ... and there are many we (mostly Craig) finally got the windshield installed.

    Some highlights ... or low lights of the installation:

    1. We had to expand the holes in the body considerably to get the right alignment of the windshield posts and get close to the proper alignment for the premium top ... We had to move them back to get proper alignment on the holes in the frame. I will have a little fiberglass work to close up the holes (or uses bigger pieces of aluminum).

    2. With the exception of one nut on the upper bolt of the windshield post we used regular versus lock nuts (during the final install I will use some Locktite on these nuts).

    3. At Craig's recommendation we made and installed thin plastic washers on the small chromed brass nuts that attach the windshield posts to the brass part on the side of the windshield. This allowed us to get the posts tight without filing off the screws. NOTE: I have ordered the SS inserts from Whitby for future installation ...

    4. After test fitting the windshield we had to bend the lower part of the post slightly to make them parallel with the plate on the frame.

    5. Last but not least we had to install shims between the posts and the frames. At the suggestion of EdwardB on the other forum, I purchased 1/8", 1/16" and 1/32" body shims to substitute for the washers ... making installation much easier.

    Each installation will vary but we ended up with the following shim installation:

    DS Upper 1/16" + 1/32"
    DS Lower 1/8"

    PS Upper 2 x 1/16"
    PS Lower 1/8" +1/16"

    Here is a photo of the type of shim used ... I purchased them at NAPA.

    [​IMG]

    Here is the semi final installation of the windshield ...

    [​IMG]

    Thanks to Craig for getting the Olde Goat's roadster to this next level.

    Carl
     
  3. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    I have been pushing forward to get the items done so I can get the car ready for photos.

    The lights have all been installed ...

    Headlights were a bit more of PIA than I expected ... and the manual doesn't help a lot. Specifically:

    1. I had to expand the hole in the plastic bucket for the wiring and use larger grommets ... my fat fingers just couldn't make the much smaller grommet work;

    2. When attaching the bucket to the body the manual shows using only one screw (although the photos seemed to show more than one). I ended up using 4 of the 5 supplied;

    [​IMG]

    3. The clip provided to keep the exterior ring or cap steady was easier to put on before installing the bucket;

    [​IMG]

    4. I had previously modified the clips that hold the ring to the light as done by others before me. Before I install the lights for the final time ... I will use longer screws and some locktite to make sure they don't vibrate off;

    [​IMG]

    It is starting to look like a real car now ...

    [​IMG]

    The Rear lights ... pretty much as expected although I clocked them 90 deg so the lettering on the lenses is right side up. The rear lights are a pain to get tightened down ... You have to install the washers and nuts from under the car. I did remove the rear wheels to make it easier. If I can get away with it I will reinstall after painting before installing the body.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    Here are the photos of the doors after a lot of work on the gaps and the intersections between the door tops and the body.

    Passenger Side:

    [​IMG]

    There must be a wide enough gap so that no part of the door touches the body when opening and closing ... also taking into account the thickness of the paint on both parts.

    [​IMG]

    Driver Side:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Carl
     
  5. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    Here is a video update after mocking up most of the components on the body ... so I can take photos today to send to DMV and get this thing road legal ...

     
  6. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    After almost a month I finally got back on the build ... feels great. After the infected part of my right lung was removed I feel a whole lot better; ready to get re done now.

    Thanks to EdwardB over on the Factory Five Forum for these modifications/improvements.

    I had initially installed the windshield wiper wheel boxes on the cowl using the hardware provided by FFR including the rubber hose gasket that goes between the wheel box and the body cowl. The one on the left on the photo.

    [​IMG]

    I also had to make some "adjustments" to one of the wheel boxes

    [​IMG]

    As others have found ... these just don't do the job adequately. EdwardB's method of substituting 3/4" aluminum square tube for the rubber seemed to be my best option. Initially I cut the tube to match the angle in the rubber gasket; which turned out to be the wrong thing to do. The original cut is to the right in the above photo.

    After attempting to reassemble the wheelbox with the newly fabricated gasket, I found that the angle of the cut taken from the rubber gasket was way off compared to the angle on the chrome base.

    [​IMG]

    After grinding the 3/4" to the correct angle ... here is how all the parts fit together. The red rectangle represents the fiberglass cowl.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    After installation the only issue appears to be the gaskets under the chrome base. I could not get them positioned so the gasket was centered under the base on the windshield side.

    [​IMG]

    I must be doing something wrong in the assembly or I need to make larger gaskets ... Thoughts?

    A word of caution; it is very easy to get the ferrule nut cross threaded on the aluminum "snout" of the wheel box. That end of the wheel box is aluminum and very easy to cross thread (at least for this Defective End User).

    Another EdwardB modification is bending the arms of the windshield wipers so the blades are lower on and parallel to the bottom of the windshield when in the "park" position.

    [​IMG]

    Before bending they stick up about 30 degrees from horizontal. The DS could be bent as is but a propane torch was used to heat up the PS to the proper bend without distortion or, even worse, breaking. I think this looks a lot better.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Craig S

    Craig S Member

    Location:
    Manassas, Va
    Carl, the good news is my car is 11 yrs old, I did similar work to my wheel boxes way back when, and they still work fine today. Good job!
     
    Carlewms likes this.
  8. Mike Holt

    Mike Holt Member

    Location:
    Magnolia, DE
    Carl, I assume you ran the wipers thru to ensure you had adequate cleaning before bending them. Was there much change on the top end?
     
  9. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    Mike,

    Actually I did not ... I went by what some other Mk4 builders did on theirs ... plus I didn't think about it until I had already bent the DS.

    The good news (or silver lining in the cloud) is that the bend on the DS was very minor so the sweep should not be impacted much. The PS was bent a lot so I could definitely have a problem on that side.

    Thanks for the reminder though ... it's on the punch list!
     
  10. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    As background ... I had a challenge where 1) the hardware provide by FFR was 7/16"-14 while the FinishLine Overiders were designed for 3/8"-16 hardware; 2) I had already installed the FFR hardware on the rear and the tank was already installed; and 1/2 full of gas; 3) I wanted to make sure the front overriders were installed parallel to the face of the radiator opening; and, 4) my first solution looked like crap.

    Thanks to Craig S and King over on the FFR forums here is the resulting solution

    Front Overriders:

    Here is the final hardware for mounting to the front frame.

    [​IMG]

    The only real PIA is getting to the heads of the bolts inside the overriders but a claw foot open end wrench solved that problem.

    This is how the King 7/16" to 3/8" brackets were attached to the overriders.

    [​IMG]

    For the front overriders ONLY ... the brackets were heated and bent to approximate about 7 deg from vertical. To achieve the desired angle I cut the upper FinishLine SS sleeve to get the distance I thought look right from the face of the radiator opening to the back of the overrider. The lower FinishLine SS sleeve was then sized to achieve the angle.

    [​IMG]

    Here are the results ...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My thanks to CraigS and King ... King thanks for making the excellent brackets.

    Thoughts ...

    Rear Overriders in the Next Post ...
     
  11. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    The installation of the rear FinishLine Overriders was easier than the front ones ...

    I had already installed the Kleiner modification to allow installing the hardware without lowering the gas tank. Here is the hardware for the rear.

    [​IMG]

    The results ....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Do you think this will work long term?
     
    Mike Holt likes this.
  12. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    Now that the body was in position I cut the holes for the Breeze Driver's Side SS Roll Bar.

    Why Breeze vice the one that comes from FFR? The FFR hoops are "too" tall and are not raked back in my humble opinion; the Breeze looks a lot better.

    Since I didn't have the holes cut by FFR prior to delivery I had to do it myself...and the process was just a little crazy.

    The light from a strong flashlight can be seen through the fiberglass so I inserted a light into the frame mounts for the roll bar and used felt tipped pen to mark the spot for the hole on the fiberglass. A 2" diameter hole saw was used to cut the first hole.

    [​IMG]

    Once the inside leg was located the outer leg hole was marked at the base of the outside leg of the Breeze hoop parallel to the flat section of the rear cowl.

    Again used the 2" holes saw to cut the hole for the outside leg of the hoop and then the hoop lowered on to the frame tubes.

    [​IMG]

    Now for the trickier part ... locating and cutting the oval for the rear leg of the roll bar. Broke out the trusty flashlight again ...

    [​IMG]

    I focused the flashlight to maximize the beam and marked the location with the marker. The cut was made with the 2" hole saw and then ovaled out with a grinding wheel and rasp.

    [​IMG]

    After fiddling with the moving parts here is the semi-final fitment of the roll bar. The final fitment will have to wait until the body is off for painting to get access for mounting and drilling the stub tubes.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Once I had in position I marked the tube in the locations where it emerges from the body to make off body fitting easier.

    [​IMG]

    Any suggestions or comments are always appreciated!
     
  13. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    After going as far as I could with the wiring of the trunk I decided to focus on getting the rest of the heater vent tubes mocked up.

    The heater box and all engine compartment components have already been installed .... a long time ago! The vent tubes to the foot box vents are also installed. What remains are the vent tubes to the rear facing vents and the defroster/demister for the windshield.

    Before installing these I needed to figure out how to connect the "Y" to the NCR fiberglass defroster plenum through the 2" blasted gate valve used to control airflow to the plenum.

    Some requirements I set for the install:

    1. It had to be removable without cutting the vent tube or the plenum;
    2. Maximize flow to the windshield area right in front of the driver; and,
    3. The amount of air going to the defroster needed to be controlled.

    The solution and mock up ...

    1. Determined the location for the plenum and blast gate;
    [​IMG]
    2. Drilled a 2.5" hole with a hole saw in the plenum;
    3. Drilled a hole to accept the boss on the 2" blast gate valve;
    [​IMG]
    4. Fabricate a 1/8" thick rubber gasket to seal off the area between the blast gate and the bottom of the plenum;
    5. Fabricate 3 brackets from sheet metal to attach the blast gate to the plenum;
    [​IMG]
    6. Drill out the brackets to use the existing hardware on the blast gate and #10-24 machine screws and Nyloc nuts for the plenum;
    [​IMG]
    7. Installed the assembled blast gate on the plenum making sure the that the boss on the blast gate is indexed to the small hole on the plenum;
    8. A PVC "T" was painted and prepped to divert air to the defroster plenum;
    9. The vent tubes are then attached to the "T".
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Carlewms

    Carlewms The Rivet Man Contributing Member Member

    The FinishLine Trunk Prop Rod is mocked up ... finally.

    Borrowing on the work of others on the forum ... with a few modifications of my own. The biggest modification was to move the rod farther away from the trunk lip and mount the bottom bracket so that it would not interfere with the Breeze "D" trunk seal.

    Using some scrap 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" angle aluminum bracket was fabricated to accept the rod's bracket on the inboard side, mount to the trunk lip and provide a location for the brace to the side of the trunk.

    A brace was fashioned from some spare 1/2" aluminum tubing. The ends were flattened out and drilled for #10 - 24 x 1/2" bolt on the top and 3/16" rivet on the bottom.

    The base of the upper support is a 1" x 2.5" x 1/4" aluminum block shaped to fit along side the "rib" on the trunk lid. Two #10-24 3/4" countersunk screws will be installed on the back (or top) of the block before it's secured to the lid with HSRF.

    All the other hardware used are SS #10-24 1/2" bolts, Nyloc nuts and SS washers.

    [​IMG]

    After getting all the mounting hardware together I needed to position the lower and upper mounts so the Prop Rod would fully open the lid and clear the Breeze seal installed on the trunk lip.

    The final position of the REAR of the mounts was 7" from the trunk edge on the body and 16 3/4" on the lid. After several tries I finally came to the realization that the darn thing could be in multiple possible positions as long as, with the trunk lid closed, no interference occurred with the body and the lid. The closer to the front; the higher the lid will open limited by the hinges. For this Prop Rod you do need to raise the trunk lid slightly to release the latch on the rod.

    [​IMG]

    The lower end of the Prop Rod is attached to bracket that is mounted on the edge or lip of the trunk and supported by a brace attached to the side of the inner trunk wall.

    [​IMG]

    The upper end is attached to a block "glued" to the trunk lid just inside the "rib".

    [​IMG]

    The HSRF will be done after the body is removed for painting and the final installation after the final body installation.

    Is this the right approach ...?

    Carl
     

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